Anti-Semitism in Guild Wars - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Y.T. · Sep 21, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

how did *a player* know you were jewish unless you told him for some odd reason?

secondly did you really expect Anet to close out his 50 dollar account on your report?

what do you consider to be appropriate action for Anet to take?

never noticed any antisemitism in gw, have to admit that racist remarks happen but usually only against players who started african-american chars, cant say its a trend, but it happens smtimes. mentioning report to anet is usually enough to stop such remarks even in wierdest pugs... anet is hightly efficient in keeping the community clean, cant be 100% efficient but i think they're getting close to it....

also aaron why do u care about antisemitism only? 'cos u're jewish? why dont u care about racism in general? and i agree with loviatar, what do u expect from anet now, this player and u r both customers, therefore equal

if u want anet to imply some special rules to protect *jewish community in-game*, why stop there? lets bad all players accused in racist behaviour! and lets be PC full-time, and say that if any player that claims to be a minority of any kind (african-american, native american, gay, w/e, i've lost count alrdy

) ever reports any kind of biased behavior towards him/her, his/her offenders should be banned for life? or what r u asking for? but isnt it too much? why did u start this thread - ppl who felt offended prolly reported w/e they wanted to report, its really easy to report unappropriate behaviour; why cant we leave it to anet to handle the problem - they're banning offenders all the time, they can handle it, dont worry.... compare to many mmrpg anet is efficient in such matters

oups, noticed ur reply - he's ur former guildie.... oh well, tolerance is a must, and i'm talking about both sides here - chances r u offended the guy, so he tryed to figure out the best way to offend u back... i agree that the way he chose isnt the best possible 1, but i cant see u as a victing only 'cos u're feeling offended.... its really hard to draw the line and say that this is a serious threat and thats just a stupid joke... being nice to ppl usually pays off

basically its a personal conflict between u and this guy, they way he decided to insult u is 2ndry here....

Mercury Angel · Sep 21, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Some people may go out of their way to target a specific religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, nationality etc., but as a general rule, most specifics aren't very widespread.

Yes, I've heard 'jew' tossed around as an insult, but to be honest, korean/chinese/japanese bashing seems a lot more rampant. Perhaps because they're easier to pick out due to their unique languages.

So in short, no, I don't feel that anti-semitism is all that big a thing in GW. Yes, there is some, but there's a little bit of everything, about anything. People find the stupidest reasons to pick on each other.

Arena Net will ban people occasionally for offensive remarks, but keep in mind that they're usually temp bans. Unless it's extremely serious or frequent, I doubt you can hope for more.

Malice Black · Sep 21, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Its only words over the internet..

Just be the mature one and ignore it..most of it is silly kids looking for attention.

redmen12 · Sep 21, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Loviatar, why do I get the feeling that you are bashing the op? Of course it will take at least 3 offences to get banned, but are you saying that he should never be banned? I belive that it was against the EULA to speak of Anti-Semitism, so should they not be banned? The EULA is similar to a contract or law, if you break a rule, then you must face the consiquence(i think i spelled that wrong).
To aaron, I feel your pain. In my past guild I was called names because I am Arab. I learned to put them on my ignore list and move on. I do belive that A-net should give an increasing ban on these things.

Example- offence 1: Banned for 3-5 days

Example- offence 2: Banned for 11-14 days

Example- offence 3: Banned for 20-30 days

Example- offence 4-9: Banned for 30-40 days

Example- offence 10: Permenant Ban

Malice Black · Sep 22, 2006, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Why do you tell people what nationality you are?

IrishCatholicNewYorker · Sep 22, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

anti semitism? clearly the group of people with the worst reputation in gw are the noobs.... lol jk srry that you had to deal with those remarks. My guildies char was black (or african american whatever you prefer) and some guy called him a n***** my poor guildie however is black(or african american whatever you prefer) in real life and was very offended he reported it to anet don't know what happened after that tho...

Loviatar · Sep 22, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmen12

Loviatar, why do I get the feeling that you are bashing the op? Of course it will take at least 3 offences to get banned, but are you saying that he should never be banned?

there is a big difference between ban and permaban which is evidently what the OP expected

to actually answer your last first they posted some time ago the sincreasing scale similar to what you listed leading eventually to permaban.

that exists already.

my *bash* if you wish to call it that is that *from his post* he seemed surprised that Anet did not permaban him on the spot

Quote:

I reported the user and NCSOFT said that they dealt with the issue. Well that user is back on Guild Wars.

his original post states clearly that he expected harsher penalties and that Anet did not punish the offender to the OP`s satisfaction

[QUOTE]I am just posting to see if anyone else has experienced anti-Semitism or racism in guild wars that was not dealt with by NCSOFT in an appropriate manner.[/QUOTE]

that is why i am asking him to be specific on how Anet failed and what he expected.

ANET did say the offender was taken care of but obviously not to the OP`s satisfaction

Kook~NBK~ · Sep 22, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

If in fact A-Net did take punitive measures of any kind, that should satisfy the offended. If the offender doesn't learn from the first "slap on the wrist," then he/she is going to keep up with the offensive behavior and will end up getting reported again - receiving harsher and harsher punishments for each successive incident.

"Suck it up" is not the answer. Yes, don't let those losers get to you, but there's no reason for anyone to sit there and take abuse. Don't goad the jerks on, just get the SSs (you can even say you've taken them!), leave the area, and send the report. Let the A-net guys deal with the loser.

"Turn off all chat and only associate with guildies" isn't the answer, either. That's penalizing yourself for the actions of others. There are far more decent people playing GW than there are jerks, so turning all chat off cuts you off from meeting those people, too.

Ork Pride · Sep 22, 2006, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmen12

Loviatar, why do I get the feeling that you are bashing the op? Of course it will take at least 3 offences to get banned, but are you saying that he should never be banned? I belive that it was against the EULA to speak of Anti-Semitism, so should they not be banned? The EULA is similar to a contract or law, if you break a rule, then you must face the consiquence(i think i spelled that wrong).
To aaron, I feel your pain. In my past guild I was called names because I am Arab. I learned to put them on my ignore list and move on. I do belive that A-net should give an increasing ban on these things.

Example- offence 1: Banned for 3-5 days

Example- offence 2: Banned for 11-14 days

Example- offence 3: Banned for 20-30 days

Example- offence 4-9: Banned for 30-40 days

Example- offence 10: Permenant Ban

Haha they made fun of you because you are arab?

Usually they call me islamofascist because i am a muslim

I just throw insults and racist words back at them and then we laugh about it if we are friends or guildes. If not then they normally shutup and forget me lol.

redmen12 · Sep 22, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

^^^
We are known to fight back lol

Sour Pancake · Sep 22, 2006, 01:42 AM // 01:42

there are some things in life that we all have to deal with, for most of us, unfortunately one of those things is racism. its going to happen, on gw or in rl. you need to deal with it yourself, because yore not special. its not like theyre looking cool or anything saying it, not everyone needs to be punished.

lifes not fair.

{DvT}AARON · Sep 22, 2006, 01:42 AM // 01:42

The problem i am having is with NCSOFT. They have just been going around in circles on my case. I asked them to define "a severe violation of the rules" told me they could not disclose any actions they may or may not have handed out. I also asked for them to be clear about NCSOFT's views on anti-semitism. They have not answered that question. they have run in circles around it. it makes u think......

{DvT}AARON · Sep 22, 2006, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y.T.

never noticed any antisemitism in gw, have to admit that racist remarks happen but usually only against players who started african-american chars, cant say its a trend, but it happens smtimes. mentioning report to anet is usually enough to stop such remarks even in wierdest pugs... anet is hightly efficient in keeping the community clean, cant be 100% efficient but i think they're getting close to it....

also aaron why do u care about antisemitism only? 'cos u're jewish? why dont u care about racism in general? and i agree with loviatar, what do u expect from anet now, this player and u r both customers, therefore equal

if u want anet to imply some special rules to protect *jewish community in-game*, why stop there? lets bad all players accused in racist behaviour! and lets be PC full-time, and say that if any player that claims to be a minority of any kind (african-american, native american, gay, w/e, i've lost count alrdy

) ever reports any kind of biased behavior towards him/her, his/her offenders should be banned for life? or what r u asking for? but isnt it too much? why did u start this thread - ppl who felt offended prolly reported w/e they wanted to report, its really easy to report unappropriate behaviour; why cant we leave it to anet to handle the problem - they're banning offenders all the time, they can handle it, dont worry.... compare to many mmrpg anet is efficient in such matters

oups, noticed ur reply - he's ur former guildie.... oh well, tolerance is a must, and i'm talking about both sides here - chances r u offended the guy, so he tryed to figure out the best way to offend u back... i agree that the way he chose isnt the best possible 1, but i cant see u as a victing only 'cos u're feeling offended.... its really hard to draw the line and say that this is a serious threat and thats just a stupid joke... being nice to ppl usually pays off

basically its a personal conflict between u and this guy, they way he decided to insult u is 2ndry here....

i care about racism 2.... that is not the subject of this case.

ogami_ito · Sep 22, 2006, 02:19 AM // 02:19

I would like to put my two cents into this discussion.

First of all, as moral citizens, moral human beings... you should say something or do something whenever you see racist, anti-Semitic, or just evil behaviour. Of course, I am an American and so I feel this way. Some foreign cultures don't believe confrontation is good. But damn it! They talk their crap, you got to let them know its NOT OK!

Second, for me, I just look down on them. I don't get that offended. How can you? Their ignorant. Or they are robotic (programmed from their environment to hate). Or the lack sense of self-worth. Either way, you should not get too upset. Take action sure…but don’t get upset. For me, when people talk crap about Jews, I feel shocked by their stupidity. And I am wary of them. But not angry. Its like if a mentally handicapped person annoys you… you just sort of step out of the way and hope that if they have children those children won’t have the same problems.

And after you take your action, Ignore. That will protect your enjoyment. Maybe also tell everyone else “WTS not really. I’m ignoring Confederate Soldier because he is a racist. I advise others to do the same”

As for ban… there are two thoughts on that. Is GW a public communications space, or is it a private game? The EULA suggests it is the latter. Hence, it would be appropriate for AANET (or NCSOFT…not sure which one) to take clear action and provide feedback to you what that action is. And monitor the results. And provide a more robust GM services.

HOWEVER, no matter what the EULA says, GW by its nature is an online community and communications space. This IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE. Courts have ruled that bulletin boards, although privately owned, can count as public communications space (I don’t really believe GW qualifies though). And in public spaces (assuming you believe in the ideas of the United States), all speech should be protected, including hateful speech. Otherwise, as some here have said, you are going to have ban requests over everything.

Just my two cents.

Loviatar · Sep 22, 2006, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by {DvT}AARON

The problem i am having is with NCSOFT. They have just been going around in circles on my case. I asked them to define "a severe violation of the rules" told me they could not disclose any actions they may or may not have handed out. I also asked for them to be clear about NCSOFT's views on anti-semitism. They have not answered that question. they have run in circles around it. it makes u think......

i can actually answer that as you are looking more and more like a hyper sensitive ......i know personally (yes jewish)

here is why you are not getting the detailed answer you seem to need.

ironically you wont specifically answer what you expected Anet to do

Quote:

Disciplinary Process

Basic Details

When a player reports a possible infraction, we will investigate.

We will take action and place account marks only after careful consideration and a review of all available facts.

We are not able to give warnings; the first level of suspension is considered a form of warning, and should be accepted as such by the player.

We will not contact you externally (via email) to inform you of disciplinary action on your account. Instead, you will receive an in-game message that will inform you of the suspension, the cause, and its duration.

Those who report a possible rules infraction by another player will not be informed of the outcome of our investigation; for privacy reasons, disciplinary actions will be a private matter between our staff and the affected player.

The suspension periods are designed to be effective and fair. The first mark results in a very short suspension; players who slip up once in a great while will not suffer dire consequences. The suspension periods do scale up, though, in order to better handle those players who are in regular breach of the Rules of Conduct. For them, the account marks can add up to weeks of suspension.

Bans will be placed on a Guild Wars account in only the most severe of abuses, but in some instances they will be placed, and they will be permanent.

they cant tell you because it would be an actionable (lawsuit to you) breech of the privacy policy

ZenRgy · Sep 22, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Welcome to the internet.

{DvT}AARON · Sep 22, 2006, 02:38 AM // 02:38

There is a point where freedom of speech ends. You can claim freedom of speech to get your ideas acrross etc. But i dont think freedom of speech implies that you can verbaly harrass a person. This has been going on for about a month. The person in question has repeatidly sent me pm's in game with antisemetic commects, spammed our ventrilo server with anti semetic commets (we had his ip on the ban list), and today he spamed me with im's from about 10 different screen names at once. I cant play gw now without thinking that this guy is out there. I have done nothing wrong and yet i suffer. By NCSOFT not puting a perminant ban on this account i still suffer. I am not special. But in the rules it states that bans will be handed out in severe cases. WTF IS A SEVERE CASE???? NCSOFT wont tell me.

now i would like to keep this on the subject of past experiances with nc and not my story. if you want 2 know more about this pm me or sumthin....

o ya i suck at spelling.....as u can c.

ogami_ito · Sep 22, 2006, 02:44 AM // 02:44

man. That does sound like a serious case. That's not yelling something out in public. That's continous targeted harrasment. NCSOFT should do something and quick.

lyra_song · Sep 22, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by {DvT}AARON

There is a point where freedom of speech ends. You can claim freedom of speech to get your ideas acrross etc. But i dont think freedom of speech implies that you can verbaly harrass a person. This has been going on for about a month. The person in question has repeatidly sent me pm's in game with antisemetic commects, spammed our ventrilo server with anti semetic commets (we had his ip on the ban list), and today he spamed me with im's from about 10 different screen names at once. I cant play gw now without thinking that this guy is out there.

So continue to work with Arenanet.

-.-

Keep track of every offense and report him.

Have witnesses report him.

research your state and his state (you have his ip, trace him) to see if there are cyberstalking laws.

Bring a lawsuit to his ISP.

Loviatar · Sep 22, 2006, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by {DvT}AARON

By NCSOFT not puting a perminant ban on this account i still suffer. I am not special. But in the rules it states that bans will be handed out in severe cases. WTF IS A SEVERE CASE???? NCSOFT wont tell me.
.

how many reports with screenshots have you sent in?

from your post

Quote:

I reported the user and NCSOFT said that they dealt with the issue. Well that user is back on Guild Wars.

it looks as this is the first time you reported him and were surprised he was back.

if that was the first report you sent in on him Anet is treating it as a first offence.

it doesnt matter how long he has been doing it if you havent reported it from the start

Sep 21, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45	#22
Mercury Angel Avatar of Gwen Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wandering my own road.	Some people may go out of their way to target a specific religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, nationality etc., but as a general rule, most specifics aren't very widespread. Yes, I've heard 'jew' tossed around as an insult, but to be honest, korean/chinese/japanese bashing seems a lot more rampant. Perhaps because they're easier to pick out due to their unique languages. So in short, no, I don't feel that anti-semitism is all that big a thing in GW. Yes, there is some, but there's a little bit of everything, about anything. People find the stupidest reasons to pick on each other. Arena Net will ban people occasionally for offensive remarks, but keep in mind that they're usually temp bans. Unless it's extremely serious or frequent, I doubt you can hope for more.

Sep 21, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47	#23
Malice Black Site Legend Join Date: Oct 2005	Its only words over the internet.. Just be the mature one and ignore it..most of it is silly kids looking for attention.

Sep 21, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56	#24
redmen12 Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2006 Profession: Mo/Me	Loviatar, why do I get the feeling that you are bashing the op? Of course it will take at least 3 offences to get banned, but are you saying that he should never be banned? I belive that it was against the EULA to speak of Anti-Semitism, so should they not be banned? The EULA is similar to a contract or law, if you break a rule, then you must face the consiquence(i think i spelled that wrong). To aaron, I feel your pain. In my past guild I was called names because I am Arab. I learned to put them on my ignore list and move on. I do belive that A-net should give an increasing ban on these things. Example- offence 1: Banned for 3-5 days Example- offence 2: Banned for 11-14 days Example- offence 3: Banned for 20-30 days Example- offence 4-9: Banned for 30-40 days Example- offence 10: Permenant Ban

Sep 22, 2006, 12:04 AM // 00:04	#25
Malice Black Site Legend Join Date: Oct 2005	Why do you tell people what nationality you are?

Sep 22, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17	#26
IrishCatholicNewYorker Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: FL (from Long Island NY) Guild: Rage Against The Dying [RAGE] Profession: Me/W	anti semitism? clearly the group of people with the worst reputation in gw are the noobs.... lol jk srry that you had to deal with those remarks. My guildies char was black (or african american whatever you prefer) and some guy called him a n***** my poor guildie however is black(or african american whatever you prefer) in real life and was very offended he reported it to anet don't know what happened after that tho...

Sep 22, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57	#28
Kook~NBK~ Grotto Attendant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: A little chalet outside Drok's Guild: Natural Born Killaz	If in fact A-Net did take punitive measures of any kind, that should satisfy the offended. If the offender doesn't learn from the first "slap on the wrist," then he/she is going to keep up with the offensive behavior and will end up getting reported again - receiving harsher and harsher punishments for each successive incident. "Suck it up" is not the answer. Yes, don't let those losers get to you, but there's no reason for anyone to sit there and take abuse. Don't goad the jerks on, just get the SSs (you can even say you've taken them!), leave the area, and send the report. Let the A-net guys deal with the loser. "Turn off all chat and only associate with guildies" isn't the answer, either. That's penalizing yourself for the actions of others. There are far more decent people playing GW than there are jerks, so turning all chat off cuts you off from meeting those people, too.

Sep 22, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37	#30
redmen12 Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2006 Profession: Mo/Me	^^^ We are known to fight back lol

Sep 22, 2006, 01:42 AM // 01:42	#31
Sour Pancake Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Heroes Ascent ID1 Guild: I Hero Glyphics I [iHGi] Profession: Mo/	there are some things in life that we all have to deal with, for most of us, unfortunately one of those things is racism. its going to happen, on gw or in rl. you need to deal with it yourself, because yore not special. its not like theyre looking cool or anything saying it, not everyone needs to be punished. lifes not fair.

Sep 22, 2006, 01:42 AM // 01:42	#32
{DvT}AARON Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Brookline, MA Guild: Team Deviant Profession: Mo/Me	The problem i am having is with NCSOFT. They have just been going around in circles on my case. I asked them to define "a severe violation of the rules" told me they could not disclose any actions they may or may not have handed out. I also asked for them to be clear about NCSOFT's views on anti-semitism. They have not answered that question. they have run in circles around it. it makes u think......

Sep 22, 2006, 02:19 AM // 02:19	#34
ogami_ito Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2006	I would like to put my two cents into this discussion. First of all, as moral citizens, moral human beings... you should say something or do something whenever you see racist, anti-Semitic, or just evil behaviour. Of course, I am an American and so I feel this way. Some foreign cultures don't believe confrontation is good. But damn it! They talk their crap, you got to let them know its NOT OK! Second, for me, I just look down on them. I don't get that offended. How can you? Their ignorant. Or they are robotic (programmed from their environment to hate). Or the lack sense of self-worth. Either way, you should not get too upset. Take action sure…but don’t get upset. For me, when people talk crap about Jews, I feel shocked by their stupidity. And I am wary of them. But not angry. Its like if a mentally handicapped person annoys you… you just sort of step out of the way and hope that if they have children those children won’t have the same problems. And after you take your action, Ignore. That will protect your enjoyment. Maybe also tell everyone else “WTS not really. I’m ignoring Confederate Soldier because he is a racist. I advise others to do the same” As for ban… there are two thoughts on that. Is GW a public communications space, or is it a private game? The EULA suggests it is the latter. Hence, it would be appropriate for AANET (or NCSOFT…not sure which one) to take clear action and provide feedback to you what that action is. And monitor the results. And provide a more robust GM services. HOWEVER, no matter what the EULA says, GW by its nature is an online community and communications space. This IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE. Courts have ruled that bulletin boards, although privately owned, can count as public communications space (I don’t really believe GW qualifies though). And in public spaces (assuming you believe in the ideas of the United States), all speech should be protected, including hateful speech. Otherwise, as some here have said, you are going to have ban requests over everything. Just my two cents.

Sep 22, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34	#36
ZenRgy Zookeeper Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Australian Discussion Posse HQ - Glorious leader Guild: ҉ ̵̡̢̢̛̛̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟&# Profession: N/E	Welcome to the internet.

Sep 22, 2006, 02:38 AM // 02:38	#37
{DvT}AARON Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Brookline, MA Guild: Team Deviant Profession: Mo/Me	There is a point where freedom of speech ends. You can claim freedom of speech to get your ideas acrross etc. But i dont think freedom of speech implies that you can verbaly harrass a person. This has been going on for about a month. The person in question has repeatidly sent me pm's in game with antisemetic commects, spammed our ventrilo server with anti semetic commets (we had his ip on the ban list), and today he spamed me with im's from about 10 different screen names at once. I cant play gw now without thinking that this guy is out there. I have done nothing wrong and yet i suffer. By NCSOFT not puting a perminant ban on this account i still suffer. I am not special. But in the rules it states that bans will be handed out in severe cases. WTF IS A SEVERE CASE???? NCSOFT wont tell me. now i would like to keep this on the subject of past experiances with nc and not my story. if you want 2 know more about this pm me or sumthin.... o ya i suck at spelling.....as u can c.

Sep 22, 2006, 02:44 AM // 02:44	#38
ogami_ito Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2006	man. That does sound like a serious case. That's not yelling something out in public. That's continous targeted harrasment. NCSOFT should do something and quick.